HOME IMPROVEMENT PRINCIPLES FOR SELLING LUXURY AND MASS MARKETS WITH STAGING DESIGNER, BIRGIT ANICH
Heads up: I use affiliate links for my fave products. If you click and purchase, I may receive a small commission at no extra cost to you.
In today’s episode, I am interviewing Birgit Anich. Birgit is the CEO and Creative Director of BA Staging & Interiors. Birgit was raised in Austria and has also studied in Italy, Paris, and New York. After obtaining her second Master’s Degree and working in the market research field, she combined her analytical skills and her creative side to start her company. Birgit has over 11 years of experience helping her clients achieve success through beautifully designed spaces. She and her team have received over 45 industry awards, including some of the most prestigious in the industry, and have helped sell over 1,200 properties with a combined value of over $1 billion. Birgit is an industry leader and national speaker and serves on the Executive Leadership for HSRA.
HIT PLAY OR READ THE TRANSCRIPTION BELOW…
SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW ON YOUTUBE
Are you subscribed to my channel? If not, what are you waiting for!? By subscribing to the channel, you’ll make sure you never miss an episode. Click here to subscribe on YouTube.
If you enjoy the content, I would be really grateful if you left me a review over on YouTube, too. Reviews help other people find my channel and it also acts as a love note between you and me!
Curious about The Renovation Planner? Click here to learn more!
I’m raising my virtual glass to say Cheers to your soon-to-be new and improved home!
– Alice
LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
VIDEO TRANSCRIPT:
Alice: Well, hi Birgit. Welcome to the podcast.
Birgit: Hi Alice. Thanks for having me.
Alice: Absolutely. Thank you so much for joining us. So now please let everybody know where you're coming from. Where are you located?
Birgit: So, we are located in Fairfield, Connecticut in Fairfield County, Connecticut.
Alice: Okay. And that's a pretty high-end area, is it not?
Birgit: Yes, it is one of the top areas in the country. So we have like a lot of towns that are very well known across the country, like Greenwich, new Cain, and Westport theory. And so we have like some really high-end, towns along with the long island sound.
Alice: So have you guys been seeing a big influx of people from Manhattan moving over to your neighborhood.
Birgit: Yeah. Yes. So really like, last year was absolutely crazy. It still continues this year. I actually just came from a consultation this morning where we have another lovely family moving out from New York coming here to Connecticut.
Alice: Okay. So now are you helping them with a property that they purchased or are they, are you working with the buyers or the sellers.
Birgit: So we do both, so we help sellers who want to sell their property. A lot of our sellers are moving out of state and, and we help also home buyers. Then when they come to Connecticut to help with their design. And a lot of them have actually purchased the property here in Connecticut as a second home, not necessarily as a primary residence. So they may have, they're still then New York Manhattan apartment and have another property here in Connecticut where they may be on the weekends or during the pandemic, they were like spending more time out here. And now they're, they're doing both locations.
Alice: Okay. So the smart ones haven't completely given up on the city altogether. Yes. Because it's also one of those one-way tickets, right. You leave. And how do you go back okay? So what have you noticed, how has the pandemic kind of affected the housing market in your area What have you noticed over the last year
Birgit: Right. Right. So basically because of the influx of buyers from Manhattan, we have a huge change in the real estate market in the sense that before the pandemic, we have seen houses taking quite a bit of time to be able to sell them. And over the sudden overnight swoop, there are sold so quickly in comparison to how it was before. So houses are now, like for our market. I was just looking yesterday at some statistics, we have like 75, the average days on market. Right. Which is down from last year 31%. So, which is like, a huge improvement quicker selling quicker, the properties quicker.
Alice: So now is it because that you're in a higher-end bracket, you're the houses in your market are luxury you're in a luxury market. So is that the reason why they were taking a little bit longer to sell because, or is it just kind of the case was.
Birgit: I think it's a multiple factor with overall Connecticut and taxes and so on. I think it's partially that, but that's why it's did sell slower, before the pandemic, but now people are coming out and veer in comparison to Westchester County, which is just across the border from us, here in Connecticut, the property taxes are lower than in Westchester county. So a lot of people see Connecticut, okay, here we can come and have fewer property taxes and sell fast. And now because they're moving out here and, and trying, but not every, every area here is just luxury. So there, they're certainly towns, they're very luxury and very high-end. And then others that are, are a little bit less. So they're interspersed in between.
Alice: Okay. So given that that's the case, are you guys, so it's even more important that people are preparing the houses to sell in a very mindful manner and they're utilizing home staging to help them with the marketing. So have you noticed, because, in a lot of, a lot of markets throughout the country right now is experiencing a boom, right That it's really a seller's market? I'm not sure if that is still the case in your area, but around here, things are selling like crazy well above asking. It's insane. You know, the California market is just unlike any other and I've been talking with folks and it seems to be that way kind of across the board. Are you seeing that where you are also?
Birgit: We see that here as well. So we just had like, just to give an example, we just prepared a house for sale was a real, real rush. We really like to turn it around with, between painting floor puffing and, staging the property, took a whole, like a week and a half to get it all prepared. And then it sold within 24 hours with multiple offers, way above the asking price. So this is just to give an example that it happens here as well. I think like it, from what I hear, but that's more hearsay than based on actual research effect is that it seems like California seems to be even more insane in this regard than Connecticut, Connecticut. We haven't seen that. We haven't seen really, since the housing crash, we haven't seen an upswing in the real estate market. Like the one that we are in right now since the pandemic. So we haven't seen the pickup like Connecticut was one of the few places where it really didn't pick up the housing market until the pandemic happened. So it was very interesting to see.
Alice: So in that case, when you are helping your clients put a house on the market, what is it that you're advising them to do so that they are getting the right eyeballs on their specific property Because if you're not in a market that, you know, honestly, people feel like they don't need to do a whole lot here. And we can talk about that in a little bit, but because your market wasn't as, active, let's say, what is it that you guys do to make sure that every single house that goes on the market is shown in the best light possible
Birgit: So the clients that worked with us, we always work with them and consult them like, okay, you have options. You have options of putting the house on the market as is everybody has that option. You have the option to invest some money and get the house really properly prepared and staged and get a way higher price than you would if you didn't do the preparations, like both houses will sell, but one will, you will walk away with the higher check and you will have more money in your pocket. And this is really a way of making more money right now, even more. So I think than before, to really, really, have an additional income or additional check, to walk away with.
Alice: Yes, you want top dollar on the table Give me all the profits, right Everybody looks at real estate as a, not just a home, but really it's an investment. And they need every dollar out of that particular product. It doesn't matter. You know, if you have millions of dollars in the bank, or if you only have a dollar in the bank, everybody wants every dollar they can out of their investment because then you can take that and put it towards the next property or whatever the case may be. Right.
Birgit: That works at college and exactly your kids. It's like whatever. Yeah, there is, there is so much that you can really like the state, and staging really, really helps you to achieve that because you increase the perceived value of your property. And buyers don't want to buy projects. They want to buy a home where they can immediately move into. They don't want to wait for buyers too, oh, I don't even know if they're first-time home buyers. I don't even know how to call it painter. Especially when they're coming from Manhattan up to Connecticut, they have no connections here to painters. They have no connections to any of the tradespeople yet. And so they don't even know where to get started with those projects. So as a seller, you have to prepare it for them so they can see themselves being able to move at the moment that purchases the home.
Alice: I agree 100%. Now, are you noticing a particular trend of properties that buyers are looking for when they're coming from Manhattan Obviously if you're, I mean, everybody's situation is different, but let's say you're living in an apartment beyond the wide-open space that Connecticut offers? What else are they looking for when they're buying properties out there.
Birgit: Yeah. So it really depends on what price point they're looking for. and what I have seen especially last year, I'm not so sure this year, but last year we have seen like, definitely, a trend, single-family homes, like townhouses and apartments were definitely people didn't desire to purchase those. Because again, because, of what happened with COVID, that they didn't want to be in proximity to other people. So they preferred their own little private backyard. But if they're what they're looking for nowadays, especially in the luxury market is they are looking, for a separate space that barely has a home office where they can be separated from the family. So less the open floor plan concept. I see that less desirable. And I have gotten all the feedback from the builders who build new constructions, that they definitely have to tone down the open floor plan concept to accommodate separate meeting spaces for Sioux meetings, for working from home, having a little privacy away from the family. I see that one is a really strong one. And then, there are also, smart homes. people have been investing over the last year tremendously into getting smart technology into their homes, be it from their TVs being, through light switches, having, like.
Alice: We don't want to get up to turn off the lights.
Birgit: Even my husband. Can you imagine Like, he's like, oh, the sudden we have like this smart home and it's like, I don't even have to get off the couch anymore? It's like, I can't shout from upstairs from the bedroom. They're not in the lights.
Alice: So funny. Okay. Maybe we've gotten a little too lazy during this pandemic easier without actually having to move.
Birgit: Yeah. So, but also another trend that I've seen is like wanting to have an in-home gym area. Yes. To have that. And in-home movie theaters. So like having a little bit, at least a movie theater experience that they have created so often, like, additional spaces, like the basement may be converted into like a little movie room and things like that.
Alice: That's, what's nice about the east coast. You have the basements, we don't have basements here. It's called crawl spaces. That's basically what the contractors have to do underground to deal with the pipes and all of that. We don't want to go there.
Birgit: Oh, no, that's no fun.
Alice: `No, not at all. No. We've been seeing that a lot too. I mean, I converted half of my garage to a gym also because, you know, you needed a place to work out. And I had the treadmill temporarily in my living room, which is not very large, to begin with. I was like, nope, this can't stay here forever. And we didn't know how long, you know, this pandemic was going to be part of our lives. so yes, definitely. So it's very interesting that you say that even the builders are starting to rethink the floor plans because yes, for so long, we're taking down walls, opening everything up, and then we're realizing if everything is being done under one roof and everybody has to live simultaneously doing whatever they're doing. you can't do that when everything is open to one another. So are you noticing that I don't know how they would do this because usually builders already have floor plans in place and they've got everything permanent specific to those floor plans? So are they completely rethinking it and starting to create walls so that they can delineate spaces?
Birgit: So in our area, we don't have in the lower Fairfield county area, which I am in, we, most of the houses that are being built because the land is scarred various, not really lot of development prop, land available where you can just build up one house next to the other. That's pretty much the same floor plan. so most of the houses are like a lot of them are single lots that being bought up and the house being torn down and the new house appears that's double or triple the size than on this, in the past their architectural designs. So in that sense, they can then accommodate, this new thinking.
Alice: That'd be very interesting. What, what do you see, trending Like what are the design aesthetics that are popular, where you are
Birgit: What I see here is a lot with natural woods and whites and natural woods and organic flows right now. That's for the new constructions. Obviously, if you have an older property, it's hard to bring it up to this particular standard takes more effort and more money to, because you need then the wider wood floor planks in order to accommodate you, can't do it with those small ones, right. To get to achieve that same effect. That's that's nowadays. But, that's really very popular here. love the black windows. And so it's, it's very coastal Hamptons, a little bit influenced from the Hamptons here. Okay. And the blue and the natural.
Alice: So with staging a property, what are some tips that you have, like some must-haves, right Because we all know that first impressions are everything. It was very interesting. Actually, I just was speaking with somebody who was interested in upgrading his restaurant. He owns a restaurant. And even though he has like 1500, five-star reviews on Yelp, the restaurants, appearance is what's turning people off. So if people don't know about their food, but they see the five-star reviews on Yelp and they go there they're turned off by the restaurant itself. It used to be a fast-food restaurant. He didn't have a lot of money to upgrade it, but I did take a look at the photo. So we'll, we'll, I will be helping him with that. in up-leveling that look because first impressions are everything right. We automate he's, people just look and they are turned off by the appearance.
Alice: So therefore they don't necessarily want to stay and have dinner there or have lunch there, whatever the case may be. and I told him, you know, that's very much like selling a home. If you have a, you know, whatever the price tag is. And it depends on where you're located, whether it's a $500,000 house or a $2 million house, there's a certain level of expectation when you're walking through the front door or as you're even entering as you're going up to the front door. And when those expectations are not met, it changes your view of everything. Right. Automatically I walk in, I'm like, oh, that's it. So what are, what are the things that you're telling your clients that absolutely. No matter what.
Birgit: Yeah. So one of the things, the biggest things is paint. You can't have outdated paint colors or outdated wallpaper. it's not to say that every wallpaper has to come down. We have going back in trends with some wallpapers by the past to be the current look, it can't be, I just had today another consultation where I walked in as I was like, oh my gosh, this wallpaper is really from 20 years ago. And it really doesn't help to sell that house. So, definitely, updating to current trends of paint colors, and naturally has to work with architecture and the style as well as the surrounding color palette that's in, in the house. Whatever is like, if you have a fireplace in this certain stone, you need to be able to complement that with the paint color about the paint is important. the flooring is important with those carpets and so on.
Birgit: Make sure that super-clean, or basically best this, even to remove them, if you're there's hardwood floor in there, it really immediately updates and upgrades your home. the other thing that I see commonly is lighting fixtures. Lighting fixtures are really giving away the age of a property. If the lighting fixture is like the stated lighting fixture immediately, my emotion goes from here to there. I walked into this property today. I'll take curb appeal. My expectations were up here. I opened the door and of a sudden, I dropped all the way down here. It's like exactly what you just said before with the restaurant. It's the same reaction. I was like, oh my gosh, this house could look so cool. So good. And I don't know how much it could sell for more if this would be updated.
Alice: Sure. So there's really, you can tell when it was last renovated or updated based on the light fixtures because there are definitely clues to that. And so for not very much, you can totally update light pictures and give it a whole fresh perspective.
Birgit: It doesn't mean that you have taught the $10,000 chandelier in there. That's not what's needed for selling the house. It has to have the right look and for the right price. And it has to have the right shape, the right color, and everything and give enough light. And then another thing is like the kitchen kitchens are so important and sometimes it really depends on the cabinet tree. And it depends on the countertop that's currently in there. But, updating the countertop sometimes is enough. Other times you may have to even paint the cabinets and the hardware on the cabinet tree. Like the hardware is also such a big, important part. And it's like such a simple fix. Like how often have I been walking into a kitchen Is that like, all you need to do is update those snobs and handles. And that's all it's most really needed.
Alice: Yeah. And the sample is better than dancing. You see, some people love like the little floral knobs, and like that we're like, no, let's make it super simple. Whether it's Chrome or as brushed nickel or polished nickel go with something simple like that versus something that's a little too style specific.
Birgit: Right. And it has to be also the shapes, the right shapes. Some people don't understand like, okay, where, what is it like, what's wrong with it. It has the right color, this gold. Yes. But it was from the gold. First of all, the color of gold, there are some nuances of it is from, from the eighties. And, and then the foreman and the shape of it is from the eighties. So you need to update it by having it simpler, clean, align, and it makes it immediately a huge, huge difference. And the bathrooms too, sometimes you can paint tiles and there are so many different ways of addressing some of those problem areas that doesn't mean to have a full renovation where sometimes it is maybe needed to have like new tiles and new vanities in there. So it really depends on the property-by-property basis. And I think really starting out with a consultation with a professional stager is really the right way to go, to really understand where can I, should I invest to get the maximum return on the investment And, so you have the blueprint of what needs to be done and how to get the maximum dollar amount at the sale of the property.
Alice: Now, have you ever have you come across anybody that just does not believe in it does not subscribe to this, this methodology for getting their house sold
Birgit: Yeah. I had a tough conversation this morning, even though, even though they called us to make an appointment at one point I was turning over to her. So since you're like, basically questioning everything that I'm just telling you, what am I doing here. Why did you call me?
Alice: Yeah. Why didn't you call it validation that she didn't need to do anything? Is that what it was.
Alice: You're like listen, you don't have to do anything, but you're not going to get what you think you're going to get for the property. Right Exactly. You're going to get what out of it, what you put into it. and actually, you're going to get significantly more than what you put into it. Generally speaking, because the overall value of the property skyrockets when it's shown well right now, that's why I think sometimes people do need to maybe get people who actually know them to walk through the house and tell them, listen, that's not cute. You think it's cute It's not cute. Or your house does not show well. Or, would you pay, would you pay the price that you want to sell for this property if you were to purchase it again?
Birgit: Yeah. And that's why I, but that's also why we call it an investment into staging and not a cost because you get it the return on the investment back when you're selling it.
Alice: And I also think that beyond staging, cause I love staging. I think staging is extra important in every situation, but it's like that cherry on top before you even get to the staging part, like you have to also evaluate what your property itself is offering to your buyer. Because at the end of the day, once the house was sold, the staging is removed from the property and they're going to be left with whatever house they bought. So what did you leave them That is a value. Right And so that's where some of these home improvements become even more important. The lighting, the countertops, the cabinetry, the flooring, you know, those things that actually stay there and they're going to either live with or would have to replace at some point.
Birgit: Yeah. So yeah, no, I completely agree with you. And in the end, that's why, when we do a consultation, we look at it, all this from two points of view, one is the home condition of the home. Does it need any updates and upgrades And the other one is on the showcasing of the property, which is then the actual seeding, the furniture decor, and all that stuff? but that's why the two angles looking at it from two angles, that's where it all comes together. Both together. We'll increase the perceived value of the property if both are in alignment with each other.
Alice: Yeah. Understood. Now, are you guys experiencing in the east coast, what we're experiencing over here, which is a little bit of a difficulty getting materials. I mean, it's really hard where we're at to get materials now. So if you're wanting to do some of these home improvements and even buy furniture, I had a bed that was on order since last November. We're still waiting for it. I don't understand why it's taking so long. Honestly, when we could have built one, it would have been done already, but, it's with a major retailer and they keep throwing discounts at us and you know, the homeowners are willing to wait. but it just seems a little ridiculous where we're like six months out now almost seven months. So that's something that you're experiencing over.
Birgit: Well, yeah. I think that's a nationwide problem right now. It's it doesn't matter where you are. So, and the prices like have skyrocketed love has like skyrocketed, like crazy, which we see also reflected than in all sorts of other, not just in the building materials, but also in the furniture and so on. So it's, it's reflected everywhere. So yeah.
Alice: So you got to warn the clients in advance, like don't expect to receive anything right away. Patients are really number one at the moment and that's not right.
Birgit: If you have to work with what's in stock and what's on order.
Alice: Well, it's so funny we're having this conversation because literally just like 30 minutes before we got on this call, my contractor went to go pick up the flooring that was ordered was supposedly in stock, which it's been paid for. And he goes there and there's no stock. I'm like, I don't understand. So yeah. And it's just constantly pivoting, finding new things, like you said, you're, you're basically at the mercy of what is available. What can I get right now and how can I make that work with my, you know, design plan. and I don't, nobody likes to work that way. It's not fun, but you know, either that, or you're waiting months before you actually receive what you really want.
Birgit: Right. It's a challenge right now seems to be the goal of selling houses. We want to get them on the market as quickly as possible. We have to really make sure that we work with what's available and we can't be overly picky. I know, Unfortunately, even though we want to be right,
Alice: I'm not appreciating this current state that we're in like really, it is what it is though. So let me ask you, what's one of the craziest things that might've happened to you over this past year.
Birgit: Oh my gosh. That's such a difficult question.
Alice: There's something with a property, with a situation, nothing
Birgit: That there's nothing really crazy. Actually, other than beer completely shut down for two and a half months last year. And we had to pivot and we were like many others, like doing completely virtual consultations. so we have this client who is actually out of state. We were doing a consultation calls via zoom. She was walking with her phone through, showed us everything. I said, most of this here, move this there. And I was like pointing as if you are standing in the room, but that was in front of the camera on my end. And we were talking it through and then said like, you have to exchange lighting fixtures. You have to do painting this in this color. So we were doing everything remotely and they really executed it all.
Alice: Okay. That's cool.
Birgit: In between they got a little bit frustrated and I think it would have been much more beneficial if you were here because it was a little bit harder as like, yeah, I know. I wish I could have been there too, but unfortunately, we can't. but in the end, it all worked out nicely and they got an offer within a few days after the hat had done the market and it was above the asking price. So they were super happy.
Alice: That's great. That's good. I have not done well. I did virtual consultations where we just kind of talk in general about something, not specifically like move that chair here, remove this, do that, whatever. that would have been interesting cause I was still going on-site in some places. but I had a very specific client I was working with. So it wasn't as general. but yes, this, this past year has been a complete change in the way we operate in general people in general and some,
Birgit: Be creative.
Alice: Yes. We had, we had the, I had a property that was getting ready for the market. We're doing renovations. And this, the Monday we were supposed to get our rough inspection was when everything shut down, I was so mad. Cause I was like, please let me just get this one inspection in. Then we can actually move forward with our work. But we ha we, we were delayed. I think it was not quite two months before they came back up. and we were able to schedule the inspections, but that was frustrating because once you pull a permit, you can't do things according to those terms. So yes. Well what would you say What, what, what advice would you have for people that are interested in moving to Fairfax It's Fairfax county, right Fairfield, Fairfield county. Sorry, my bad Fairfield county. What, what, w what advice would you give people Because what are you noticing that would be helpful to them If they were looking to move to your area, what are, what are the prices like in your area I'd be interested to know, because I mean, prices here are ridiculous. So, I mean, nothing you tell me is going to surprise me, but maybe somebody who's trying to move to Connecticut from, you know, the Midwest somewhere. I mean, no matter where they go, they're going to be in for some sticker shock.
Birgit: Well, so, well, I just only have like an average square foot price. and that's for the whole of Fairfield county. So it really then depends on which area you are in which town you are in. It can be, can be almost double of what I'm seeing right now. So it's like, the average, per square foot price for a single-family, home is $321. but the lower Fairfield county area, which is the more, most expensive area is definitely higher. I don't have numbers separately because it's lower in Fairfield county areas made out of all towns. And there are specific towns that are really the hype price tag towns. So it really depends where they want to move to.
Alice: So what is considered a luxury in your area so price-wise.
Birgit: I'm like we're considering it more like 1.5 million upwards.
Alice: Okay. And what can you get for 1.5 million Like, are we talking like a four-bedroom, three-bath.
Birgit: It depends on which town you are in. It's really very square much. and I think how much was this one that was 4 million. So that's another good price comparison. At one point you can get like three-bedroom, I would say, okay, I'll say three bedrooms. but it's definitely on the smaller side. So it's more like a 2000 something square foot house.
Alice: Okay. Interesting. What's the largest home you've ever staged in your area
Birgit: That looks like a little bit of a 10,000 square feet.
Alice: Oh my gosh.
Birgit: And we just did it very recently actually, and it's a beautiful, beautiful property and also an old rustic property with huge, like, I think the ceiling height is over 24, 25 feet ceilings. Wow. And huge, huge rooms with wood beams. It's really, really amazing. And you can go to a rep size and take a look at it.
Alice: Yeah. I, I, I love to look at houses in different parts of the country. And obviously, I love to compare pricing, which, you know, the way I see it almost anywhere else, you can get way nicer homes than what we can get in California for the same amount of money, just because, and then I feel like the east coast has homes with a little more character than what we have here. They just, they just don't have a lot of personalities. You got to really infuse that in there on your own.
Birgit: Well, you have, though, on the other hand, you have some really, really cool properties that are so much forwards. more contemporary properties that we don't really see much here at all. So I love those contemporaries in California,
Alice: I guess. It just depends on what I do, you always want what you don't have. Right.
Birgit: It's always greener on the other side of,
Alice: And it's so funny because people hear like, oh, I hate all these, you know, it's so funny when you talk to people in, as you go through neighborhoods and you see all these modern homes, all these modern structures going in, and then you've got people, oh, I hate those. They just, they look so cold and, you know, uninviting, and then you've got other people over here saying, oh, I love those. And cause you don't see it. Right.
Birgit: I wish like we would have liked, some are an area where we have like a good mix of both of those. Yeah. We're east coast meets west coast and both of them are intermixed with each other.
Alice: Hmm. Where would that be?
Birgit: I know. I wish that's why I say I wish.
Alice: I know. Interesting. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate you taking the time to talk with us and tell us a little bit more about your world over in the east coast and you know, hopefully, things will, hopefully, things are opening back up for you guys and things are going back to the new norm.
Birgit: Yeah, we are actually, we are just got like released, like from mask free.
Birgit: Just like on the 19th of May. Okay. Reopen. Yeah.
Alice: I don't think we're quite there yet, soon though.
Birgit: Not completely mask-free. So in stores and so on lucky and the people here are really good. And for the majority, like have been throughout the pandemic really good in varying masks. There's only like these little out layers, but overall, even now with lifting, people are still like using the masks very much and we have high vaccination rates. So we are super, we are heads of many, most states, so, which is really, really good. So we are really excited.
Alice: Yeah. I'm excited that, you know, overall, nationwide that things are starting to open back up and people are able to kind of resume life, whatever that means to them. Right. So, I mean, there's still a lot of catching up to do, but oh yeah. I'm glad that we're moving in the right direction.
Birgit: Yes, absolutely. And thanks for having me.
Alice: Thank you, good luck for the rest of the year. I'm sure you're going to be keeping busy and doing great things and helping people make lots of money if they listen to your advice.
Birgit: Absolutely. Looking forward to helping them. So thank you so much, Alice.
Alice: All right. You take care. Bye.
Subscribe to the Behind the Renovation Design Journal
Sign up to receive the latest home renovation tips, resources, and inspiration!
RELATED POSTS
